What erks you in fandom???

[alexajaye]

Anyway, this reminds me that I find extremely funny how so many authors write in the summary "Don't like it, don't read it". I'm always left like "Huh..." You know, to decide if I like it I NEED to read it FIRST??!!

I see this a lot, and it bothers me. It apparently bothers others as well because even with a "warning" like this, fics are still getting pulled for content. It's curious to say the least, because as you say, a story must first be read to determine whether its subject matter is "likeable" or not. A lot of people who write poly stories put that in their summaries, and while I've only read one poly story, I can honestly say very little actually stuns me to the point that I have to stop reading.

I have likes and dislikes, yes, but more often than not, the story improves or a character is done away with, or so on and so forth. I don't like when Bella is a character who is so down on her luck that when a good thing happens to her, she has to kick it in the mouth instead of accepting it for what it is. And I don't like when there is no reasonable explanation for a character's behavior, or another character's reaction to said behavior.

I read an article once, and even a review for Twilight, that said Bella and Edward's love was not based on anything substantial - likes, dislikes, common goals, or even common personalities. It was based on magic. She sees him, he sees her, and poof! They're in love. I guess it should be noted that upon first seeing Bella, Edward wasn't very impressed with her, but alas, he became so smitten so fast that his grandpa probably rolled over in his grave from the sheer speed of it.

I prefer my characters to grow to appreciate each other, be friends and possibly grow to love each other and respect one another before they actually jump in the sack. There has to be something mutual other than attractiveness, even though I'll admit it helps. My cousin seems to think that I would only be attracted to someone if they were sweet, funny, and resembled a girl (that's another issue), and when she says things like that, it really shows me how much she doesn't know me. I don't know what my type is, not really. I just want someone who will listen to me and make me laugh and treat me right.

Is that so bad? No. But in fiction, these things do not go hand in hand, apparently. Why people want to read about Edward as a wrongfully accused criminal or a mob boss or a cold-hearted CEO whose heart is naturally only melted until he meets Bella is beyond me? What if it wasn't Bella who pulled his head out of his ass? Would you people still be reading it?

I don't think so.

[Sylvianna]

I read an article once, and even a review for Twilight, that said Bella and Edward's love was not based on anything substantial - likes, dislikes (...)

It is hinted. They spent some time (days? LOL) talking and getting to know each other. On Edward's initiative they talked about likes and dislikes and, I guess, about opinions on several stuff. Even when in NM they're discussing Romeo and Juliet and reflect on teenage love or things like that, they were getting to know each other some more.

The problem is it seems people don't want to know about the actual magic of getting to know one other (that's why films about instant love are so popular while films like Before the Sunrise are for oldies like me, who grew up thinking that actual romance is being able to spend 24 hours talking non-stop with the guy you liked and liking him more every minute and with every conversation subject you touch, you know? A real connection with someone on a deep level). So that, getting to know each other, is only hinted in the books at the beginning- we never know what they do that summer together before NM but I guess there would be some more talking because making goo-goo eyes to one another must get old at some point-, and it is completely forgotten in the Twilight films which is one of the numerous things I dislike about them, even if the first one is the one I tolerate the most, ironically.

With regards to the mob, I've read a few, not many. I only really like Emancipation Proclamation but then again

SPOILER

Edward is forced to get into the mob and he was born in that world to begin with

END of SPOILER

I don't understand all these romances about Mob Edward and non-Mob Bella. I mean, unless she is into that stuff, she was born in those circles or something like that, I cannot understand how the heck a mob boss would ever fall in love with a mousy nondescript girl or a law student with a different moral compass!!! And again, if we change Edward for James it stops being hot. We're only left with the ugly part of the character which is 99% of it: he is a killer, a criminal in many other ways- who knows if maybe even a rapist, which is something I saw one MobEdward doing to one Bella in a fic-, he traffics with drugs, weapons and, possibly, humans without a care for what it does to other human beings and he only strives for more power and more money. Is that charming? I don't think so.

As I said, Edward needs to have a redeeming quality and being in the mob willingly doesn't seem conducive to that in my view.

[Rachissy]

I read an article once, and even a review for Twilight, that said Bella and Edward's love was not based on anything substantial - likes, dislikes (...)

It is hinted. They spent some time (days? LOL) talking and getting to know each other. On Edward's initiative they talked about likes and dislikes and, I guess, about opinions on several stuff. Even when in NM they're discussing Romeo and Juliet and reflect on teenage love or things like that, they were getting to know each other some more.

The problem is it seems people don't want to know about the actual magic of getting to know one other (that's why films about instant love are so popular while films like Before the Sunrise are for oldies like me, who grew up thinking that actual romance is being able to spend 24 hours talking non-stop with the guy you liked and liking him more every minute and with every conversation subject you touch, you know? A real connection with someone on a deep level). So that, getting to know each other, is only hinted in the books at the beginning- we never know what they do that summer together before NM but I guess there would be some more talking because making goo-goo eyes to one another must get old at some point-, and it is completely forgotten in the Twilight films which is one of the numerous things I dislike about them, even if the first one is the one I tolerate the most, ironically.

I think this is totally an age thing. I'm an oldie like you. I'm into real romance. Conversations, shared interests, getting to really know a person outside of their physical shell and all that.

My niece is almost 15. She's been dating this guy for a few months but within a week or two he was "the love of her life" and the one she was going to spend the rest of her life with and the "most incredible man she's ever met." My facebook wall was filled with this BS for weeks. All the while I'm screaming. "Do you even know his middle name? Or what he wants to be when he grows up? Or his favorite color?"

I can't entirely blame Twilight and other YA books and movies for this because I was guilty of doing the same crap when I was that age. Those hormones kick in and it's all so new and it's very hard to distinguish love from lust. I remember thinking it was the end of the world when my teenage romances ended. It wasn't.

Since Twilight is a YA book and it is intended for that audience, they kinda had to give them (the YAs) what they want, which is instant, undying, unbreakable, all consuming love at first sight. It's kind of sad but it is what it is nowadays and until they start making more realistic love stories (and they won't until there is a market. Catch-22) these kids will go on thinking this is the way love works. That is, until real life slaps them upside the head.

[Sylvianna]

Yeah, I know about thinking you're in love with a guy without actually knowing him. I mean, I knew him in the sense that I talked to him some times but never had an actual conversation about likes, dislikes, nothing. It happened to me when I was 14 and if I had my 14 years old self next to me right now I would pat her head while telling her "poor naive you, how much you still don't know even if you think you do". I actually almost pulled a NM Bella back in the day, minus the "I don't hang up with friends or listen to music anymore". No, no, I was more melodramatic: I would listen to music and every lyrics would fit with my heartbreak like if it was particularly writen for my situation... How embarrassing! Hahahaha!

However, as I said, in my teens and with my friends, we dreamt about things like Before Sunset, Reality Bites and things like that (not just Ethan Hawke's films, it's just they're the two that come to mind right now). It was just that in our naive dreams we assumed that it all came in the package!

That's the problem when I see teens and not so teens having these huge crushes for people such as Pattinson nowadays, like thinking they're REALLY in love with him (or other actors or singers). Because we're oldies now, we know that what you do when you're young is getting the image (their appearance) and a couple of very vague- and PR filtered- things you pick up in magazines about their personality and fill in the blanks. And, gosh, how many blanks you fill in without even noticing when you're a teen with a crush like that. Because the fact is you don't know these people at all and, most likely, will never do. They might be jerks or extremely boring for all you know but you pour everything you think you want in a guy into their image and so they become the perfect guy. I think teenage boys are more down to Earth in that matter, with their fantasies. LOL

I still believe though that back in my days there were more films where the courting stage was a bit longer than nowadays. The only film I remember, and I was not even a teen yet, where they exchange less words that in Twilight before coming to the conclusion that they're in love is The Princess Bride:

Buttercup: Farm boy, polish my horse's saddle. I want to see my face shining in it by morning.
Westley: As you wish.
Grandpa: [voiceover] "As you wish" was all he ever said to her.
[Cut to them kissing]



And yeah, I had a crush on Westley even before becoming a teen. Who can blame me? Here he is talking about true love and how death can't stop it, only delay it for a little while... sigh!

[alexajaye]

The only film I remember, and I was not even a teen then, where they exchange less words that in Twilight before coming to the conclusion that they're in love is The Princess Bride:

Buttercup: Farm boy, polish my horse's saddle. I want to see my face shining in it by morning.
Westley: As you wish.
Grandpa: [voiceover] "As you wish" was all he ever said to her.
[Cut to them kissing]

While I'll agree that when you're young, you do and feel things that are very intense and not easy to explain, I just have to say that I LOVE that movie! It has some of the greatest one-liners and story fulfillment of any movie I've ever seen.

Difference from Twilight? It might also be a fairy tale, but when Buttercup was gone, Westley did everything he could to get to her. Not even the clutches of death could keep him away. He fought for her, even if it was against a snivelly King Humperdinck.

Edward never had to fight for Bella because she never put up a fight to begin with, and why should she have? She had no idea what love was before she met him. She turned down every nice guy who liked her because she thought they only liked her because she was new. At first, Edward only really liked her because of the challenge to him she presented. It wasn't until he'd spent time with her that he decided he wanted to know more. And we hear from book after book after book after book about how amazing he is -- even when he screws up. Which he does, a lot.

As far as Mobward? I'll take my Edward moody but compassionate any day over him being a brutal killer until he crosses paths with the innocent, sweet Bella who has absolutely no idea of the effect she has on him. In that way, he can keep her.

A newish irk? Virginal sex that is so abrupt and untimely that it couldn't possibly be enjoyable, even after adjusting. But then, I guess the opposite can be said. I mean, there's super-realism and then make-believe, but whatever happened to a happy middle ground where we know it's gonna be uncomfortable, but if done right, it won't be that ABRUPT.

Right? I read stories all the time where it's one or the other. I read somewhere that not even if you've been doing it for years, you might be horrible at writing it down without it sounding wooden and, well, bad.

Again, happy middle ground. Where did it go?

[Sylvianna]

I just have to say that I LOVE that movie! It has some of the greatest one-liners and story fulfillment of any movie I've ever seen.

Oh, don't get me wrong! Give me The Princess Bride any day! I absolutely love it. It's right there in the film collection from my childhood together with Willow and other great adventures. It had everything, just like Grandpa said: adventure, romance, humor, good characters, intelligent script... But Ithese days I tend to fondly remember Inigo Montoya- I absolutely love the character-, and Vizzini- the scene with the poison is EPIC!- much more than any other character.

[alexajaye]

Inconceivable!

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

True Love (Twu Wuv)

Billy Crystal and Andre the Giant -- absolutely my favorites!

And Fred Savage - Grandpa, they're kissing again.

Absolutely the best!

And Willow! Warwick Davis is one my favorite actors ever! Him and Alan Rickman. Of course, I have a long list of favorites.

[Sylvianna]

And Willow! Warwick Davis is one my favorite actors ever!

What can I say, the best film in Val Kilmers' career...

Willow: What are you doing?
Madmartigan: I found some blackroot. She loves it.
Willow: Blackroot? I'm the father of two children, and you never, ever give a baby blackroot.
Madmartigan: Well my mother raised us on it. It's good for you! It put's hair on your chest, right Sticks?
-----

Madmartigan: What the hell happened up there?
Willow: You started spouting poetry. "I love you Sorsha! I worship you Sorsha!" You almost got us killed!
Madmartigan: "I love you Sorsha?" I don't love her, she kicked me in the face! I hate her... Don't I?



Madmartigan rulz!

Oh, and Alan Rickman rules too:

[the Sheriff has said he'll cut out Robin Hood's heart with a spoon]
Guy of Gisborne: Why a spoon, cousin? Why not an axe?
Sheriff of Nottingham: Because it's DULL, you twit. It'll hurt more.



The only good thing about that film, Alan Rickman.

[alexajaye]

And of course, everyone knows Alan Rickman owns SNAPE. I even love the voice he does for Marvin in the remake of Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy.

Oh! What happened to movies? They're all so awful now! I wish it was still like it was when I was kid.

THOSE were movies!

[Sylvianna]

Oh! What happened to movies? They're all so awful now! I wish it was still like it was when I was kid.

Good film-makers are already too old and too rich or they're dead, unfortunately. I am so desperate that I'm willing to momentarily forget about all the things that annoy me about Peter Jackson and can't wait for The Hobbit, even if he is already seeing dollar signs everywhere he goes and has decided to make The Hobbit into a trilogy! (I mean, WTF?)

Anyway, enough of the off-topic!

I hear you when you talk about your new irk. It happens to me all the time. I kind of avoid virginal Bella as of late if the story is M-rated because it seems authors don't realize that the first time you put a huge something- and Edward never has a little something- into something it hurts, particularly if the one putting the something is more focused in f***ing like animals than his partner's enjoyment unless it is to time their orgasms. This is something that bothers me a lot because I know of some people who have actually bought into the whole "coming together" (at the same time) thing like a must and, just by believing that, they're putting pressure on themselves or their partners, which is actually counterproductive.