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Twilight Forums - Twilighted • View topic - What erks you in fandom???




What erks you in fandom???

What about Admiral Fic? Captain Fic?

Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby WithMe92 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:58 pm

It's the ultimate fantasy for some women - they get the gorgeous bad boy to change for them. I deal with women like this in real life all the time and never has it worked out for them. I can't find the article right now but this college student wrote a brilliant paper on this topic.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby Sylvianna on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 pm

If you find it, I'd like to read it.

I'm sorry for my rant, but it's that I'm dreading the moment Edward says "love" for the first time in every E&B Twific. It's like, just like that, the automaton takes his place. Since I can count the number of Bellas I've ever liked with the fingers of one hand, it's extremely annoying to end up having to read fics that are all about how, whatever she does, she's perfect. At least when Edward is around you have some interest in what's going on, but then he says "love" and completely disappears (I'll have to try that trick at work), leaving me alone with Bella.

No, it's not just having to swallow bile while you read about the abhorrent character that Bella Swan is. It's how authors let her do whatever she wants. Like, the moment Edward says "love" he instantly goes through the process of kissing the floor she walks on because he needs to get her to forgive him and trust him (forgiveness that sometimes makes no sense, because what if he's had 30 times the number of lovers Bella's had before he met her? Was it consensual? Did he hurt someone? If so, he would need to ask for that person's forgiveness, not Bella's! And if not, that's his business, it has nothing to do with Bella and he doesn't owe her anything in that respect! Ah, the irony of it all! Bella wants someone that can take her to "great heights" but doesn't like the way those skills are acquired... maybe she thought people are born with that knowledge already. Come on!).

So she is allowed to be a bitch (no matter that she's supposed to be the exact opposite to Tanya), to behave like a brat, sometimes even be emotionally and/or verbally abusive towards him... whatever you can think she's allowed to do it. Why? Because he's been a bad "puppy" and needs to be punished so he can learn to behave the way he should.

It always makes me laugh when an author makes Edward say something along the lines of "one of the things I like/love about her is that she doesn't take any of my bullshit", something that happens too many times for my liking. Well, Edward, it's seems that, in your opinion, this is a positive trait for your loved one to have. So why the HECK you take all her bullshit and you even apologize to her????!!!!

I know. I know it is because Bella is used by most authors in this fandom as a conduit for wish fulfillment, so they obviously won't have another character question anything she does. But to try and sell that as romance is too much for me. For me romance is finding that person that is the most suited to be your partner in life, not the process of creating a mini-me! If I wanted that, I'd ask Dr. Evil for the secret of cloning.

I'm starting to really feel the need to read a Gone with the Wind fic with Edward and Bella so he can tell her "Frankly, my love, I don't give a damn" (yeah, I changed the "dear" part). I never thought I would find a more annoying female character than Scarlett O'Hara.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby WithMe92 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:30 pm

Sylvianna wrote:If you find it, I'd like to read it.


I'll look for it. I should have it bookmarked some where on my laptop.


And tbh I've only really seen a handful of Bella's like you've described. Now Rose on the other hand is a different story. In just about every fic she is just plain abusive towards Emmett with the hitting him in the head or yelling at him because he jokes around.




One irk came to me today because of an author's note. She was putting so much unnecessary drama in her story and someone asked about and she got upset saying her story was "real and authentic". Of course drama happens in real life and people have many problems at once but people don't live in a freaking soap opera.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby Sylvianna on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:54 pm

WithMe92 wrote:And tbh I've only really seen a handful of Bella's like you've described. Now Rose on the other hand is a different story. In just about every fic she is just plain abusive towards Emmett with the hitting him in the head or yelling at him because he jokes around.


Agreed. Authors are pushing the limits so much that most of the E&R relationships are abusive. I've seen many where it's seems that Emmett doesn't do a single thing that she likes. She's always hitting him or yelling at him, as you say. You end up wondering why she married him in the first place and why he loves her or even bothers to open his mouth anymore, knowing that whatever he says *canon* dictates that Rosalie must get mad at him and either yell or hit him.

It's really sad to see what's going on in Twifiction these days. The couples were not very fleshed out to begin with but they had some potential to work. But people have taken a few characteristic traits, have pushed them to the limits and now we only have annoying characters and relationships.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby dazzled eyes22 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:10 pm

Sylvianna wrote:So I was wondering... there are literally thousands of fics dealing with the bad boy/good girl topic and all of them end up the same way: they love each other so much that once the "elements have been aligned" and "love conquers all" (Tanya gets out of the picture in an embarrassing way for the pleasure of the reader, misunderstandings are solved and Edward always had a powerful reason to be an asshole that Bella can accept), they never fight again. They're this "perfect" couple that spend the day saying sweet little nothings and the nights in "passionate embraces"

I started wondering why. Why once the plot is resolved one has to keep reading chapter after chapter of unreal fluff or even why the change in Edward must be portrayed in a way that completely strips him of any trace of personality. It got me thinking about canon Edward, how once he just gave up and said "Ok, Bella, my mission in life is clear: say yes to everything you say", he disappears from the book.

It's funny to see how many people get turned on (metaphorically or literally) about bad boys but, in the end, the result is always the same: the boy is tamed, emasculated in fact, stripped of everything that made him who he was and the girl is able to live her HEA after having turned him into a robot. There are no more fights or even disagreements, there is nothing that the girl can do wrong in his eyes anymore, forever and ever until death do them apart. Because everyone knows that love can only exist when you do everything I tell you to.

Once you start looking for the things that made him that boy and particularly the things that Bella could not resist, and only the physical appearance remains. Now the girl can give herself a pat on the shoulder: she got herself a gorgeous husband who sometimes is richer than an entire western country to boot, and who will say "yes" to whatever her heart desires, so that his mistress can pat him on the head and tell him "good boy".

So basically Edward, when portrayed as a bad boy, is just a pet project. Like a puppy. Cute but needs to learn who's boss.

Is this really a healthy fantasy? Because somehow I don't think I'd enjoy being married to an automaton, no matter how sexy he is.

Thanks for the rant, Sylvianna.

Ironically, I had this same discussion with another reader this morning. There was a similar plot in a story I was reading. I was annoyed because it goes to characterization. We agreed that it makes you wonder why the female character ever fell in love with him in the first place. She looks shallow if she says it was for his good looks and a big bank account. The man being so willing, just ruins his character for me. His guilt is not enough motivation to go through with that. Most guys would leave, especially when she involves his friends and family.

Yes, I do think that you're right that for Twilight that dynamic happened when Edward came back in NM. He knew he hurt her and had to make up for that and Jacob was his punishment, but he never stopped paying for it IMO and his character became a shell of what he used to be by the end of the series. I know some writers think he never paid enough, so they just translate that into the bad boy losing everything that made him bad because the female, or Bella, is always right, even when she isn't. In AU, they strip him of all his old world sensibilities to force him into the modern world. That is one of my major irks in twific.

So to answer your question, it is an unhealthy fantasy for women to choose men based on the window dressing aesthetics then proceed to change everything about him. What fun could life be with a glorified yes man? Ugh! I don't know what happened to loving someone faults and all. No one is perfect and why should someone need to change to make the one they love happy? I prefer healthy discourse to someone constantly agreeing with me.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby Sylvianna on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:30 am

dazzled eyes22 wrote:Yes, I do think that you're right that for Twilight that dynamic happened when Edward came back in NM. He knew he hurt her and had to make up for that and Jacob was his punishment, but he never stopped paying for it IMO and his character became a shell of what he used to be by the end of the series.


And he paid again for the "It" comment and for assuming that the right course of action was to protect Bella from what was a logical fear (at least for those of us who are familiar with tales that include reproduction between different species): we don't know what's going to come from this pregnancy, but assuming that I'm a monster, it can't be good. I'm not saying that I agree with how he acted, only that I understand his reasons to feel fear.

It doesn't matter that she made the same mistake as him, that is, deciding about the pregnancy without even considering Edward's reasons for feeling so scared. She gave him the finger basically, allowing Rosalie to come between them and the discussion that was necessary between any couple when they're facing a difficult pregnancy (i.e. "Bella, I am scared / Edward, I have faith/ What are we going to do?" blablablah). And the consequence was extremely cruel because it meant that Edward takes the role of an outsider to his own daughter.

I don't understand the hate towards men that permeates canon and fanfic stories. None of those stories end up with a couple (a partnership, two people that complement each other with their faults and virtues and their mutual likes/dislikes/ideas). No. They portray a woman with an accessory, so the more handsome and rich the better but it needs to stay quite in a corner when he's not of use to that woman.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby dazzled eyes22 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:40 pm

Sylvianna wrote:
dazzled eyes22 wrote:Yes, I do think that you're right that for Twilight that dynamic happened when Edward came back in NM. He knew he hurt her and had to make up for that and Jacob was his punishment, but he never stopped paying for it IMO and his character became a shell of what he used to be by the end of the series.


And he paid again for the "It" comment and for assuming that the right course of action was to protect Bella from what was a logical fear (at least for those of us who are familiar with tales that include reproduction between different species): we don't know what's going to come from this pregnancy, but assuming that I'm a monster, it can't be good. I'm not saying that I agree with how he acted, only that I understand his reasons to feel fear.

It doesn't matter that she made the same mistake as him, that is, deciding about the pregnancy without even considering Edward's reasons for feeling so scared. She gave him the finger basically, allowing Rosalie to come between them and the discussion that was necessary between any couple when their facing a difficult pregnancy (i.e. "Bella, I am scared / Edward, I have faith/ What are we going to do?" blablablah). And the consequence was extremely cruel because it meant that Edward takes the role of an outsider to his own daughter.

I don't understand the hate towards men that permeates canon and fanfic stories. None of those stories end up with a couple (a partnership, two people that complement each other with their faults and virtues and their mutual likes/dislikes/ideas). No. They portray a woman with an accessory, so the more handsome and rich the better but it needs to stay quite in a corner when he's not of use to that woman.

No, it doesn't matter that Bella made the same mistakes as Edward with the pregnancy in this fandom and I'll tell you why I think that is. It's because Bella is the heroine of this saga and Stephenie Meyer's Mary Sue.

Stephenie defends Bella in interviews by saying that in BD, Edward had to see she was right all along. She creates a hierarchy there within their relationship and I think that is what writers are responding to. They see their author excusing away Bella taking control of the pregnancy, making Edward the enemy and pitting his family against each other all because she was right -- it wasn't a monster. Though like you said, we as readers did have every reason to believe, like Edward, it might be one after the pregnancy she suffered. A lot of times, it is forgotten that Edward was right too. It did take her life, albeit she was willing to give up her human life, but she did die.

Stephenie also forgets that Bella was wrong as much as she right, i.e. leading Jacob on and knowingly hurting Edward. As writers take this journey into SM's world, I just wished they realized that Bella and Edward's relationship was not ideal and she was as flawed as her male counterparts. These lovers should have been on a path that lead them to being a stronger couple, instead of just switching who was in control and making Edward the Lois Lane to Bella's Superman.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby Ylva on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:06 pm

dazzled eyes22 wrote:Stephenie defends Bella in interviews by saying that in BD, Edward had to see she was right all along. She creates a hierarchy there within their relationship and I think that is what writers are responding to. They see their author excusing away Bella taking control of the pregnancy, making Edward the enemy and pitting his family against each other all because she was right -- it wasn't a monster.


It looks to me like they indeed take their cues from Meyer, who in turn seems to be saying: "misandry = female empowerment. If you are strong women, ladies, you can talk shit about those men. Get them just for having the gall to have, uh, balls."
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby Sylvianna on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:09 pm

I guess you're right and they're taking their cues from Meyer. I didn't know she actually said that, but it says a lot about her as a role model and, seeing how many people have fallen for the intellectual trap that Twilight is, I'm thinking these books are far more dangerous that I gave them credit for initially.

Yvla, and no one shows this as well as Rosalie, because Bella's misandry is far more subtle. There are very few fics where a R&E relationship makes sense, when you see them as something more than a marriage of convenience (for sex and kids). He's the only man she doesn't feel threatened by (because she completely dominates him) and he gets to show off the piece of meat his wife is.

I really find difficult to understand how people who claim to love the romance genre (I've never been much into it as a genre, I like romance as an element of a plot, but not as the only focus of a plot) can write things that are so... not romance.
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Re: What erks you in fandom???

Postby alexajaye on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:19 pm

All this talk is why I think I've moved on to new books and characters that are much more interesting and go through much more important journeys than Bella Swan and Edward Cullen. It might also be why when I'm writing my fanfics that are still Twilight oriented, I don't go this whole he-said, she-said bullshit, nor do I make Edward wrong and Bella right or vice versa.

I honestly haven't even been keeping up with the stories I started reading months ago. In a very fundamental way, they're all the same. But something I think this is the same in a lot of fandoms. The authors are trying to recreate something the books already have. Where have those days gone when writing was just supposed to be about writing?

Sometimes, I worry that I am a dying breed. A writer who just loves to write and doesn't care about being well-known or famous.

Find me one of those, and I will follow them into the ether and never come back.
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