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Twilight Forums - Twilighted • View topic - How Dark is too Dark?




How Dark is too Dark?

What about Admiral Fic? Captain Fic?

Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby bella c'ella luna on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:27 am

gallantcorkscrews wrote:I think Twilight, the original, is really the height of dark and disturbing in its own right. Spaniard touched on this. Meyer took vampires and whitewashed them. The act of whitewashing VILLIANOUS MURDERERS to me is a nefarious action.


i completely agree. vampires have been portrayed throughout history as evil, soulless creatures. they're basically dead people who kill people so they can suck blood outta them. there has always been a lot of sexuality around vampires, also. a lot of people consider the act of drinking blood to be like a form of intercourse (i think surrogate intercourse was the term i read).

i thought it was odd that meyer picked such a dark, sexualized monster and turned him into this controlled white-washed (exactly the word, gallantcorkscrews!) hero. i mean, obviously she took a lot of liberties with the story...

but when we picture edward and bella going deeper into the water at isle esme, we see edward - our knight in shining armor. we don't see the edward that straight up stalked people in alleys and killed them.

as for myself, i am a voracious reader. i have and will read anything. i don't like to know what i'm getting myself into...i don't want to know what kind of abuse there is or violence, whatever...because then i form opinions based on what i think i know, instead of what the author actually put out there until that point. i completely understand the need for disclaimers, though, especially since it may be harmful for people who have experienced different traumas to unexpectedly read about them.

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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby Totoro on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:29 am

^^^^ Very good point indeed.
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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby bellasbestfriend on Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:34 am

I think that Meyer took artistic license with her story. Even if Edward killed humans, it is very obvious that he regrets what he had done. There are points in the series in which Edward shows Bella how dangerous he is.

Plus, she did touch on the sexualized bit. When Bella first sees him hunt, she describes him as sensual.

I really think it's all a matter of opinion. What may be too dark for some won't be so for others
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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby mothlights on Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:21 pm

sigh_for_sigh wrote: What are your personal hard limits as it were, for Darkward or Dark!anyromanticmalelead


Personally, if I stop reading a Darkward story, it's usually because of Bella, not Edward. I won't read a story where he's being abusive, threatening, mean, and her reaction from the first time she sets eyes on him is something like, "I knew I should care that he kidnapped me and made me his slave, but I was so drawn to him and had to switch panties every time he glanced my way, so I loved him." If he's going to be menacing, she needs to offer some bare minimum of fear and/or frustration with his behavior or I am OUT. No rag doll of a female character for me. I keep running across them lately, mostly over on ff.

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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby Lalina on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:30 pm

mothlights wrote:Personally, if I stop reading a Darkward story, it's usually because of Bella, not Edward. I won't read a story where he's being abusive, threatening, mean, and her reaction from the first time she sets eyes on him is something like, "I knew I should care that he kidnapped me and made me his slave, but I was so drawn to him and had to switch panties every time he glanced my way, so I loved him." If he's going to be menacing, she needs to offer some bare minimum of fear and/or frustration with his behavior or I am OUT. No rag doll of a female character for me. I keep running across them lately, mostly over on ff.

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Yes, this... In TSL I avoided this like the plague. Bella didn't even start seeing Edward as more than her captor until about 10-11 chapters in and even then she was scared and confused by what she was feeling. I just didn't see her having these warm and fuzzy feelings for a man who was in the mob and associated with the ones who had kidnapped her.
Last edited by Lalina on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby Edward A. Masen on Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:55 pm

This is an interesting question, and one I've really had to think about because my fic is going to get extremely dark when Edward takes off on his own. That part of his life isn't the moody, atmospheric, darkly romantic journey I thought it would be- it's turned out to be existentially horrifying, brutal, and sickening. So I've questioned, a few times, how far to let those chapters go.

Twilight may not be a horror story (no young adult fiction really can be true horror), but here in fanficdom where adult material is permissible, I've decided to let Edward's killing time be the horror story that it is. I'm not going to flinch, and I don't think other writers should flinch in the telling of their tales, either, as long as they let the reader know what they're in for.

So I don't have hard limits on darkness, writing or reading. What I do have are standards. I have very little patience with graphic descriptions of violence and nonconsentual sexual acts for their own sakes, and none when they're meant to be titillating. These things have their place, and unfortunately I see a lot of authors writing the graphic stuff just because they can, with no regard or thought as to what they're really doing. Or they write as if the graphic stuff is all they had in mind when they came up with the story to begin with. A dead giveaway of that is when the author spends very few words on dialogue and their characters' thoughts, and barely describes action, but then labors for twelve paragraphs over every detail of a rape. *ugh*

There is an obligation, a responsibility involved, to be judicious. If you're going to write that kind of stuff, you'd better have a good reason for it. And for God's sake, balance it into the plot like it's any other element of the story. If it's the end-all, be-all of your story, you don't have much of a story.

:D *steps down from soapbox*
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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby JenelleCullen on Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:04 pm

Implying dark situations is okay. Actually writing it to me is much worse. I really don't get how someone...a woman could sit there and write up a long and detailed rape scene but they do. As a woman I applaud those who do. Even if the characters are fictional you get into a zone when writing and I can even fathom getting my mind in a "zone" to write something like that.

A lot of bad happens everyday but honestly much more good/normal things happen. And I kind of adhere more to the nature side over nurture. I think the bad ones are screwed up more because of biology than environment. But in a room of 100 people, maybe 5 at the most have experienced some sort of trauma.

Yes bad happens. 60 people could have something happen to them in a 24 hour span...attack, rape, murder, assault, etc. But in a city of say 1 million+ people MORE are just being normal/dealing with good, going about their lives.

So I never understand the need for only angst ridden/problem/trauma fics.

I hear people say it's more realistic. Good and happy things aren't unrealistic.

I don't know where the idea that good = boring and unrealistic but it's pretty prominent in this fandom when it comes to any sort of problems or trauma. No angst isn't seen as compelling or gritty enough. With good writing anything can be gritty.

There are so many ways to take a situation instead of always down the dark path. Or even if it does go there it doesn't have to stay. One dark thing is enough. But more than often it's one after the other after the other as if that's the only way it can be done.

So to me the good/fluff/"normal" sans problems fics should be at least be around the same in number as the hurt but I don't think they are. I really don't know the numbers though. I like reading the problems but I miss the other side not being portrayed.

I know people who have had a number of things happen to them and they don't turn to D/s or anything like that as a way to counter the pain. I can think of at least 3 people who had one parent abandon them as a child and honestly they were and are still cookie cutter normal. No promiscuity, no problems in middle school/high school, no needing to date someone older to fill the void mommy or daddy left empty. I like reading some but I miss the flip side being scarce

But somehow writing people "normal" or sans problems is unrealistic. No it's not, it just depends on the person. They could go either way and both are realistic because both happen.

I think more people turn out fine and a few do the flip side but I don't know the numbers.

So it just depends.
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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby JenelleCullen on Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:48 pm

EliseShaw wrote:I think to some extent, stories get angsty because a good story needs to have conflict. Now, the conflict doesn't necessarily have to be cutting or rape, but a story that is pure fluff doesn't usually hold my attention for long.

I do agree that there are good stories to be told in every day moments and I wish more fics explored those.


Conflict is good because it's life and it happens no matter what but gut-wrenching, huge, overwhelming traumas, incidents, etc aren't the only things people go through.

Some never experience anything on that scale. Just conflict here and there.

It's kind of sad how most of the good/normal ones tend to be PWP or just completely fluff
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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby angel_gidget on Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:32 pm

I don't think I'm really opposed to levels of darkness so much as sources of it, personally. One of the first fics I ever read on Twilighted was "Slip" which is an incredibly dark fic featuring slave camps, long-term sexual abuse (of both Edward and Bella by others), murder, cannibalism, unethical medical practices, and about a dozen other things. I was continually surprised by the dark turns within the story, yet I loved it. I found myself more grimly fascinated by it than horrified.

Yet, if something gets a little R-rated because of a drug trip, I instantly find myself more uncomfortable. Lucky for me, I don't really read too much AU-human fic, but this can be a squick for me.

I also have some personal issues with pedophilia, so while I can enjoy a good Jake/Nessie story, I generally want to see their relationship handled very delicately. I don't really buy into the idea that Nessie just woke up one day and was suddenly an adult. Rapid growth rate or no, I don't see it happening that way.
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Re: How Dark is too Dark?

Postby marielondon on Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:35 am

It's my personal belief whatever can be written should be written.
About the child rape, there is a huge difference between describing a visual rape scene, and writing this scene as a way to get the readers off.

I'm not entirely sure just how "Dark" the fic I'm writing is now, but the prologue starts off with my main character cutting, almost to the point of a suicide attempt.

I tried to write it as eloquently as possible, with as much poetic description so as not to get into the "gory" detals.

yet, my fic isn't even about cutting. But I do think it serves as a warning to anyone who ventures farther that the story does explore dark themes/situations.

Sometimes, I regret hitting people with such an angsty beginning because it's probably had a lot of readers click the back button.

still, I stand by what I write, knowing that a select few will enjoy my story.
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