What erks you in fandom???

[Rachissy]

I don't admit I read twilight! Imagine if I would ever admit to reading 50 shades! Even if I never finished it, I read most of it.

I don't either. LOL

So I imagine I would have a lot of explaining to do if I were to show my Twific folder to family and friends... I mean, I sort of admitted to watching the first film once- I've seen worse and my friends know that because they've been with me for many of them, so it wasn't a big deal-, but that's as far as I've gone.

However, they don't know I own one of the books, the first two films and have fics saved from 2008 onwards... I have a secret life!

LMAO me too. We'll my family know I've read the books and my mom, sis and sis-in-law all go to the movies together so that's no secret, at least to my family. I don't readily admit it to anyone else. The fanfic thing? That's another story. Nobody, and I'm talking NOBODY, knows about that. Not even the hubs. My fic stuff is hidden in a folder marked "Other" which is a subfolder in a folder marked "School Stuff" so I've hidden the evidence of this secret life. The hubby wouldn't really care but I would never EVER hear the end of it. He would tease me about it until we were in a nursing home with Alzheimers.

[jujubakiller]

Really, I'm tired of stories where Edward is freaking stupid! Tanya/Jessica/Lauren or whatever are freaking crazy bitches, that makes a lot of schemes, call Bella names, humiliate her, sometimes even in front of him, and he's passive about all of it. Really, Even if EDdward didn't care at all for Bella, why would he stay with the crazy lady that goes around calling innocent women bitches because she had a conversation with Edward or somehting like that?
In the story I was just reading, Tanya called Bella a whore and a slut more then once in front of Edward and even to him, with no reason, and he's still with the crazy bitch! It doesn't make any sense. Of course I flounced.

[Sylvianna]

I've found that many authors don't really care about what Edward's actions tell about him. They think that just because his name is Edward (and, sometimes, because he is a billionaire) that all is fine. The reader will forgive anything and everything. In cases like the one you say, you can judge a man by his company- and, obviously, his actions- and I don't think many authors realize that.

There is another thing: the evil bitches are always two obvious. It's like if it wasn't women who were writing these stories, you know? It seems they don't understand that we are not that transparent, that we are usually much more cunning. We look for real weaknesses to exploit and we don't exploit them in an open way because that would mean wearing the word "BITCH" writen on your forehead for everyone to see.

I've been on the receiving end of "bitchiness" of a couple of groups of girls and I don't recognize what fanfics make the "evil bitches" do as anything near to my experience. Everything is too obvious and exagerated as well as too "open", as in it happens in front of too many people and it is too obvious what's going on. In real life it's not obvious or rather it is only obvious to you and that's why you feel so isolated, which is in fact the thing that hurts the most: not the words but that no one backs you up. You can carry on with your life despite the words and the bitchiness if you have a support system; it is when no one seems to know or care about what's going on and thus don't help you or support you, when you feel alone, that it hurts the most.

Moreover, I was a real bitch once and I know (I was old enough to take a step back, examine my behaviour and understand why I did it in order to avoid doing the same thing in the future) it wasn't for the sake of being evil. I perceived a threat and I lashed out. I insulted my best friend in front of a group of people without the need to use a single rude word; just by using a statement that was innocent enough to those who weren't paying attention to its viperine implication. It was instinctual; I didn't even spend a single second thinking what I was about to say or why I was about to say it; that came later, when I spent some time reflecting on what I did with a cool head. I only realized what I was doing after I had already done it. And even withouth planning it, it wasn't obvious unless you were paying attention. Saying "you're a whore" would have been too obvious; saying something innocent enough but that plays with her insecurities is what a bitch really does (and I'm still ashamed of it, even if it's been years). That's why I say we're naturally sly.

In fact, one thing I miss in almost every fanfiction story is that, even when the "bitches" are behaving like that, they're not doing so because they know they're bitches and have to fulfill their role as such, but because of the reality they perceive. They think they're right in attacking you, they perceive they're justified in doing so by some previous aggravation or preconception or threat. To them, it's you who is "evil". Even if it is as simple as feeling you're threatening their chances to be with the golden boy or they're relationship with him or their social status. Evil behaviour, in my opinion, always requires a reason. No ones is "evil" for the sake of it (unless we're talking supernatural beings in a polarized, manichaestic imaginary world).

I blame TV for this. Everything nowadays is so black and white and spoonfed that when you watch any drama they make it extremely obvious that the evil character is, well, evil and few TV shows or films explore the reasons for them being so. And that's what you see in fanfiction.

[jujubakiller]

I've found that many authors don't really care about what Edward's actions tell about him. They think that just because his name is Edward (and, sometimes, because he is a billionaire) that all is fine. The reader will forgive anything and everything. In cases like the one you say, you can judge a man by his company- and, obviously, his actions- and I don't think many authors realize that.

There is another thing: the evil bitches are always two obvious. It's like if it wasn't women who were writing these stories, you know? It seems they don't understand that we are not that transparent, that we are usually much more cunning. We look for real weaknesses to exploit and we don't exploit them in an open way because that would mean wearing the word "BITCH" writen on your forehead for everyone to see.

I've been on the receiving end of "bitchiness" of a couple of groups of girls and I don't recognize what fanfics make the "evil bitches" do as anything near to my experience. Everything is too obvious and exagerated as well as too "open", as in it happens in front of too many people and it is too obvious what's going on. In real life it's not obvious or rather it is only obvious to you and that's why you feel so isolated, which is in fact the thing that hurts the most: not the words but that no one backs you up. You can carry on with your life despite the words and the bitchiness if you have a support system; it is when no one seems to know or care about what's going on and thus don't help you or support you, when you feel alone, that it hurts the most.

Moreover, I was a real bitch once and I know (I was old enough to take a step back, examine my behaviour and understand why I did it in order to avoid doing the same thing in the future) it wasn't for the sake of being evil. I perceived a threat and I lashed out. I insulted my best friend in front of a group of people without the need to use a single rude word; just by using a statement that was innocent enough to those who weren't paying attention to its viperine implication. It was instinctual; I didn't even spend a single second thinking what I was about to say or why I was about to say it; that came later, when I spent some time reflecting on what I did with a cool head. I only realized what I was doing after I had already done it. And even withouth planning it, it wasn't obvious unless you were paying attention. Saying "you're a whore" would have been too obvious; saying something innocent enough but that plays with her insecurities is what a bitch really does (and I'm still ashamed of it, even if it's been years). That's why I say we're naturally sly.

In fact, one thing I miss in almost every fanfiction story is that, even when the "bitches" are behaving like that, they're not doing so because they know they're bitches and have to fulfill their role as such, but because of the reality they perceive. They think they're right in attacking you, they perceive they're justified in doing so by some previous aggravation or preconception or threat. To them, it's you who is "evil". Even if it is as simple as feeling you're threatening their chances to be with the golden boy or they're relationship with him or their social status. Evil behaviour, in my opinion, always requires a reason. No ones is "evil" for the sake of it (unless we're talking supernatural beings in a polarized, manichaestic imaginary world).

I blame TV for this. Everything nowadays is so black and white and spoonfed that when you watch any drama they make it extremely obvious that the evil character is, well, evil and few TV shows or films explore the reasons for them being so. And that's what you see in fanfiction.

That's true, this evil bitches tend to be like this just because. There's no reason in most stories, and that makes them a caricature. Anyway, that makes me sad, because I thouught the story I was reading had potential to be pretty good, but the interesting conflicts were left aside once Tanya showed up, and everything became about her crazy ass trying to get to Bella.

[Sylvianna]

I am sad today because I started a fic that had potential but the inner musings of Bella put me off of it. I don't think I've ever encountered such a vapid, superficial Bella. Since she is the narrator, it gets really annoying to have her voice in your head : "I'm so hot in my new me, everyone is paying me attention, I can't believe how hot I look"... so I had to flounce. I would have liked to get pass chapter 5 and see where the author wanted to go with the plot but her Bella was more annoying than 100 Bitchanyas with how superficial she was, so I couldn't keep going.

[Ylva]

I think it sounds like wishfulfillment on the part of the authors. Any victim of an "evil bitch" as you call it, wishes it were that obvious.

Thank you for presenting the "bitch's" pov, though. I hadn't considered that before.

[alexajaye]

I've found that many authors don't really care about what Edward's actions tell about him. They think that just because his name is Edward (and, sometimes, because he is a billionaire) that all is fine. The reader will forgive anything and everything. In cases like the one you say, you can judge a man by his company- and, obviously, his actions- and I don't think many authors realize that.

This makes me thing of nearly every argument I've had with my cousin about Fifty Shades (I know, I'm bringing it up again, sorry). We argued about it again over the weekend, and her argument was still the same. Apparently, I wasn't being open-minded enough for her liking. She was convinced that I hated Christian *cough*Edward*cough*, and she barely let me get a word in edgewise. That, in turn, pissed me off. I finally had to tell her to drop it so we could actually talk about something constructive -- like my story that she's helping me with and a few others.

To make a ridiculous argument a little understandable, she said I was basing my opinion on my own experiences, but every time I tried to express my opinion of how I disliked his behavior, she kept saying, "he didn't know any other way to be." And that to me is a complete cop-out.

Even after we got home from our day-out, she still couldn't let it go. I think I might have yelled at her, and at the time, I didn't really care. I was sick of talking about it, and I was desperate to get away from her.

There is another thing: the evil bitches are always two obvious. It's like if it wasn't women who were writing these stories, you know? It seems they don't understand that we are not that transparent, that we are usually much more cunning. We look for real weaknesses to exploit and we don't exploit them in an open way because that would mean wearing the word "BITCH" writen on your forehead for everyone to see.

I have issues with the insinuation that I have a problem keeping my cool, so I guess that means I could be perceived as a "bitch." Ask the right person, and they'll tell you I'm moody, have an attitude problem and don't know how to tell when someone's joking with me.

My cousin tells me I'm not defiant, but I'm constantly arguing with her and telling her that she abuses my generosity. She's my family, and I love her, but I wonder what she'll do when I'm not so close to her anymore or completely at her beck and call.

I got into a mock argument with my nephew earlier about a simple issue, and he kept telling me that I had an attitude. All I could think afterward was, "wow, it's just a simply common courtesy to ask someone to borrow their belongings," and that made me the hot head --- because he "borrowed" something of mine without asking.

Enough about me. Sorry.

What were we talking about again? Evil bitches? That's Bella, right?

[jujubakiller]

What were we talking about again? Evil bitches? That's Bella, right?

This made me think about something else that I hate in fanfics, and it's hipocrisy. There's a lot of fics where Tanya/Jessica/Lauren/crazy bitch of thefic has some kind of atitude that every reviwer criticizes. And then, in another story, Bella has the same kind of atitude, but since it's Bella, and she's supposed to be with Edward, it's all forgivable.
The same thing happens with Edward in relation to the villain in some stories.

[alexajaye]

This made me think about something else that I hate in fanfics, and it's hipocrisy. There's a lot of fics where Tanya/Jessica/Lauren/crazy bitch of thefic has some kind of atitude that every reviwer criticizes. And then, in another story, Bella has the same kind of atitude, but since it's Bella, and she's supposed to be with Edward, it's all forgivable.
The same thing happens with Edward in relation to the villain in some stories.

Yeah, there's a horrible double standard running rampant through the fandom. But that's the rub of life, I guess. It's my nature to attempt taking the high road, but sometimes, it makes me seem high and mighty. But really, it's a state of mind. Villains have two sides. Bitchy women almost always have what they think is a good reason for being the way they are. And the "good guy" isn't always a knight in fucking shining armor. He screws up, and the only way he makes a good way about himself is understand that he's gonna screw up.

Try explaining that to my cousin who thinks I hate characters before I even read them.

[Sylvianna]

The same thing happens with Edward in relation to the villain in some stories.

I know what you mean. Ok, I'm going to confess I have a thing for sensual scenes (not always ending in a full lemon but some do) when they're both strangers and have barely exchanged a couple of words. I haven't found many that are well-writen and I still demand a good plot but yeah... I mean, there is something there and I don't know how to explain it but for me that's more intense than all the electric currents and whatever other nonsense. But it needs to be consensual and it must show; otherwise I find it repulsive.

However, the other day I started a fic and just in the first chapter I was like "hey, hold on a minute!". Edward basically dragged Bella to a room- after seeing her for the first time- without her even having time to react and started feeling her up. And I was like "OK, maybe you're going for hot but up until now she's basically been acting like a dead fish. I don't like this visual. You know? That has a name and if that was James doing it I'm sure everyone would be thinking of the same name I have in my mind right now..."

So I flounced. That's basically the real test for me. Can I substitute Edward for James and, if so, what would I think of it? The same with all those stories- and there are many- where Bella gets kidnapped to be the slave for vampire Edward and he gets to have her half an hour after she's been presented to him like a sexual object. I put James there instead of Edward and it doesn't look so hot anymore...

I am willing to accept an Edward who is not perfect and makes mistakes and does things that make you want to slap him in the face- and not just willing, I actually find it entertaining which is what I use fanfics for-, but I need to see at least one redeeming quality or I'm out.

Anyway, this reminds me that I find extremely funny how so many authors write in the summary "Don't like it, don't read it". I'm always left like "Huh..." You know, to decide if I like it I NEED to read it FIRST??!!